It is not just about employee retention, but also about their ability to make a targeted contribution. SAFe® and Shared LeaderShift© provide constructive guidelines, concrete rules and coordinated roles. In the following part three of the interview series Barbara Wietasch (BWI) and Werner Siedl (WSI) important insights and constructive tips for implementation - from the introduction and interaction between the various roles to dealing with obstacles and setting realistic objectives.

To find out more about the roles themselves, read the first two parts of the interview:

• Part one: Good management thanks to SAFe^® and Shared LeaderShift^©: Similarities and differences
• Part two: How to fill leadership roles correctly and how to leverage unexpected potential

Note from the TCI editorial teamBarbara Wietasch (TCI Partner) and Werner Siedl (Managing Partner of TCI) conducted the interview, which was originally published as a spotlight on "Führung Neu Denken: Der Shared LeaderShift^© Podcast for companies in transition". To listen to the original interview, please find the stream here on SharedLeadershift.com.

How companies manage to properly involve all employees - Interview with Barbara Wietasch and Werner Siedl

Barbara Wietasch: Werner, we've already talked at length about the importance (Part One) and the casting of the new roles (Part Two). Now let's go one step further with the next question: When you introduce SAFe® , this is usually done via pilot projects. Lighthouses so to speak, where you start with a hybrid approach or with a nucleus. What does the process look like - and how do the interfaces work in a hybrid organization when different approaches come together?

Werner Siedl: So basically, as you say, it is initially a hybrid. In my opinion, you need lean elements and agile elements at this point. These need to be brought together correctly, and this requires different mindsets or structures and principles - depending on whether someone is working lean or agile. We have been able to work lean for decades, and we have a lot of expertise in this area, especially in Germany with all the engineering companies and this strong focus on increasing efficiency. However, the agile aspects, i.e. all these topics relating to letting go and being flexible, are a significant change for employees - but also for managers in particular.

In SAFe^® there is an implementation roadmap that already contains a proposal of what an introduction could look like. As a rule, the first step is to ask the question: Is there a need to change anything? In my opinion, every company has a need to tackle something. After all, digitalization and the VUCA world are ultimately forcing everyone to deal with it - and that's where you have to start. The first step is to get the managers on board. In recent years, my strategy has proven itself time and again - in all companies, whether at Siemens or Bosch: I always try to work both top down and bottom up. So it's important to me to always work with teams so that they can develop; at the same time, you also have to guide the managers.

Particularly with regard to managers or the entire organization, SAFe^® the Lean-Agile SAFe^® Center of Excellence. Similarly, there is the Agile PMO, which is responsible for driving this transformation forward. Then there are the scrum masters or lean-agile coaches, who provide specific operational support to the teams. This point is always very exciting for me because people often say: "Okay, we have to meet in the middle - that means management has to come down and meet us, and the employees have to move up as well." I then realize again and again that the word "meeting" is actually the sticking point. For a "meeting" to work, it's also important to get the timing right. Because it is often the case that managers are very far ahead before employees even have the confidence to tackle empowerment and come to the "meeting point". Conversely, it also happens that employees are already fully immersed in the agile world - in contrast to managers. Missing out on this then leads to one of the parties giving up and concluding: "Nice approach, and I was there and tried, but there was no one there." At this point, you need translators like us - with an outside perspective - to help them and find out: Who is further ahead and what can both sides do to get there at the right time? After all, "meeting" doesn't just involve a place, but also an agreed date and time when you want to meet there.

BWI: In my experience, how top-down and bottom-up are combined also plays an important role. If employees really feel that they can learn something new and are empowered, then they are likely to step on the gas more. Of course, what kind of character the person has and how curious they are about their future - and what they can help shape - always plays a role.

The right empowerment for employees is in the hands of the management team

BWI: With the top-down approach in particular, it can happen that you first have to unlearn many things in order to learn new things; and this is all the more true in management. This brings me to the next question: How do you involve employees in this process? How do you really give them the feeling that empowerment is serious and that they can help shape it?

WSI: This integration in itself is a key feature of the Scaled Agile Framework.^® The results of a sprint are defined in concrete terms, as there is an iteration retrospective in the processes - as with sprints. The result after a sprint is reviewed or the topic is systematically presented. In agile, this is then scaled to a three-month cycle, with an inspect and adapt phase or innovation and planning sprints. These are then again scheduled for two weeks, and during this period people can really think about things, innovate again, make preparations and undergo further training. At this point, opportunities are really created, because it is often the case that no time at all is planned to be able to innovate or get involved. For example, we are holding a hackathon at a company I am currently supporting. This allows employees to contribute their own ideas and work on real issues - without being given instructions. However, if there are no opportunities to do so, then it becomes difficult to involve them.

However, it must always be said at this point that employees are relatively quick to give their feedback and get involved. However, if this input is ultimately not implemented by the management team, it can very quickly fizzle out again. It is therefore important to work with what is contributed. This means that it's not just about making suggestions for innovations, but you also have to follow up on these suggestions and always show that the input is being received. Of course, you also have to communicate that you can't introduce everything. But you have to take the points seriously, value the employees and involve them - this is the only way to achieve innovations and improvements. Another important topic in SAFe 5.0 was that the learning organization was emphasized once again: We all - each person, but also companies and firms as a whole - must become a learning organization. Because everything is changing faster and faster, and we simply need these learning opportunities. Learning also means making mistakes - but it's best not to make them twice, three times or more.

Enormous impact potential through the right framework in the company

BWI: Let's stay directly with the outlook and the long term: what impact and what sustainability does SAFe^®?

WSI: The effect can always be seen relatively quickly, but it is also like a Scrum-Introduction: There are always people who are skeptical about the framework. Personally, I usually like the skeptics very much. Because once you take the time to sit down with these people, the reasons for their skepticism become clear. At this point, you then have the opportunity to respond to them and explain to them what you can achieve and what the benefits are. It is precisely these people who are then good multipliers for others. That's why I really enjoy working with them.

In addition, employees then very quickly realize that they have more transparency in all possible areas. This can be unpleasant because it also reveals what they are doing, but they then also see more opportunities to exert constructive influence. If implemented skilfully, they are also protected by the framework - it prevents them from going into overload mode, which is also very important to me personally.

In principle, SAFe^® also very economically driven, which of course enables special objectives, such as a faster time to market: With SAFe^® this is sometimes reduced much more quickly. Just two weeks ago, there were good examples again at the European SAFe^® Summit, where a company presented that it had reduced its time to market from 18 months to three months. The quality and increased productivity are certainly not the same right from the start, but in the course of the introduction - if you then deal with it in detail - a significantly higher level of productivity and quality can be achieved. The same applies to employee commitment: I then see that gleam in their eyes much more often than before. But that is also linked to this: You have to create the right environment. If the right environment is not created, then this glow quickly fades again.

BWI: In detail, this is again the triad of skillset - toolset - mindset, and the toolsets are quite simply an essential lever. There is also the concept of bricks, bytes and behavior, i.e. the topic: What is the environment really like? What do offices look like? What does the IT equipment look like? But also what is the behavior of the people who provide the framework?

The interview on the concrete involvement of employees in the organizations and on targeted collaboration with the help of SAFe^® and SharedLeaderShift^© led Barbara WietaschTCI Partner, and Werner SiedlManaging Partner of TCI.

Read on directly and delve deeper into topics

In the final part four of the interview, the focus is on the outlook for the future. On the one hand, it is about where SAFe^® on the other hand, the question of how the future prospects for companies will develop - and how organizations can prepare for this. You can read all about this in the interview finale, which is expected to be published on Friday, August 21, 2020.

Read also

• Part one: Good management thanks to SAFe^® and Shared LeaderShift^©: Similarities and differences
• Part two: How to fill leadership roles correctly and how to leverage unexpected potential
• Part four: So that companies become better and better: A look into the future

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(Cover image: © ASDF | Adobe Stock)