Transformation Consulting International's network of consultants brings together numerous experts who regularly exchange ideas and bring together a wide variety of focal points. In previous publications on the TCI blog, among others Barbara Wietasch (BWI) and Werner Siedl (WSI) have already written interesting articles. As part of a podcast interview on Rethinking leadership the two of them took a closer look at the similarities and differences between Scaled Agile Framework^® (short: SAFe^®) on the one hand and the Shared LeaderShift leadership model^© on the other hand. We have written up the findings from this interview in a multi-part series of articles and are making them available to you below. The two interviewees and the TCI editorial team wish you a good read!

Note from the TCI editorial teamBarbara Wietasch (TCI Partner) and Werner Siedl (Managing Partner of TCI) conducted the interview, which was originally published as a spotlight on "Führung Neu Denken: Der Shared LeaderShift^© Podcast for companies in transition". To listen to the original interview, please find the stream here on SharedLeadershift.com.

How companies achieve their goals faster - Interview with Barbara Wietasch and Werner Siedl

Barbara Wietasch: Hello Werner, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us. We got to know each other as colleagues in our TCI consulting network, in which you have been working for all of us. the expert, the specialist, but also the trainer on the subject of SAFe^® are. You have SAFe^® has already been introduced in the large DAX companies, but also in SMEs. In our discussions, we have repeatedly come to the conclusion that there are similarities, but also very clear differences between the two organizational models Shared LeaderShift^© and SAFe^® that have so far remained completely underexposed. Would you like to start by saying a few words about yourself before we get into SAFe^® get in?

Werner Siedl: Thank you, Barbara. Well, I spent most of my life working in the Siemens Group in various management positions before setting up my own business eight years ago. After a few experiments, I joined the TCI network of Transformation Consulting International, where I found like-minded people who deal with the topics of transformation and change in companies. I am now Managing Partner there and head up the Focus team for Scaled Agile Framework^®. We work specifically on the question: How can we help companies and organizations, departments and especially employees to cope with these changes, which are happening ever faster, so that they can achieve their goals? Our focus is therefore on a lean-agile mindset and corresponding structures, and so we have now specialized, so to speak: On SAFe^®.

BWI: That brings us straight to the topic: how has it developed over the last few years and months? In our conversations, you mentioned that it is constantly being updated and relaunched, so to speak. Would you like to say a little about that?

WSI: To put it simply, SAFe^® a relatively young methodology or framework that was only developed in 2011. In the meantime, it has developed rapidly and, as you said, there are changes every year. In the beginning, it was still very software-heavy or had too strong a focus on process and technology aspects, was then expanded to include Scrum and has since developed more and more into a holistic system that can be used to structure the entire organization or entire companies. In the latest version, for example, we are already talking about a dual operating system that combines different elements even better, such as hierarchical structures that provide stability and a value stream network, which in turn takes greater account of innovation and flexibility. In this respect, it is a hybrid structure between classic, agile and lean aspects.

Comprehensive framework for all areas of the company

BWI: You've already touched on something very important, because today we are ultimately very "lighthouse-like" at the companies. What is your view here as a consultant: Do you see SAFe^® is there still potential for possible changes and improvements?

WSI: Changes and improvements are always possible, and that's what I like about the Scaled Agile Framework^®. I only joined three and a half years ago because it wasn't known before, and since then it has developed a lot and is very extensive. It is now freely available on the Internet and comprises a total of around 6,000 websites. So it's no longer just small-scale, but extremely detailed.

Of course, in day-to-day operations or when working with customers, you are always looking for suitable elements to implement the whole thing, and of course a few elements are occasionally missing at one point or another. This potential for improvement exists in practically all areas, whether in portfolio management or in the financial areas, in HR or wherever else. But I also look forward to the new version every year, because it brings new solutions that close these gaps. Toolkits are also made available to help me with the practical implementation of the whole thing.

BWI: That's an interesting point that we at Shared LeaderShift^© and also in many comparisons with SAFe^® have noticed again and again: We need to focus on certain things in a different way. A good example of this is the "Leadership POWER", to really see them as a "force" and ideally to divide the roles between three shoulders - that there really are three different heads. This division was an important starting point, as we know it from Design Thinking and Scrum.

So first of all, we need a person who is responsible for customer and value. On the other hand, we need someone who is responsible for the team and for performance - which we also know from the Scrum Master. And, of course, we need someone for the area that means leadership in the traditional sense and is therefore responsible for people and culture. At Shared LeaderShift^© these three are on an equal footing and together they make up the leadership. In your experience, what is it like for companies and what do you hear from employees? What are the roles in SAFe^® with the Scrum Master, Product Owner and what are they all called?

WSI: In the comparison between SAFe^® and Shared LeaderShift^© it is interesting that there is a triumvirate for both. With SAFe^® the framework contains all the elements from Scrum and builds on them, and ultimately everything is taken from the agile approaches. So if you have already worked with Scrum or Kanban boards and are familiar with the role of Product Owner or Scrum Master, then you will feel at home. But Scaled Agile Framework is^® has just gone further and Triumvirate positioned at a level above this, at program level. There is the product manager, who is effectively the chief product owner. Then there is the release train engineer, the chief scrum master, so to speak, and then there is the system architect and engineer who looks at the architecture. With SAFe^® it is these three who work closely together to unite different aspects and perspectives.

What I really like about your Shared LeaderShift^©-model is that you really emphasize the topic of People & Culture with a special role and thus provide targeted support. This is what SAFe offers^® in this form, even though a lot of emphasis is placed on it throughout the framework. Of course, this shapes the basic mindset and principles, but there is no specific role that takes care of this.

BWI: To round off the topic, I would like to add that with these three roles at Shared LeaderShift^© have also considered a fourth. This is then the Triumvirat+, where there are once again specific people responsible for Strategy & Governance. As long as the team is small, or perhaps two to three teams in the company with Shared LeaderShift^© If these teams work on the basis of an organization, they can practically create their own rules. When aligning with an organization, appropriate roles are of course necessary that also feel responsible for this.

The interview on SAFe^® and SharedLeaderShift^© led in comparison Barbara WietaschTCI Partner, and Werner SiedlManaging Partner of TCI.

Read on directly and delve deeper into topics

Part two of the interview deals specifically with implementation and the right roles for SAFe^® compared to SharedLeaderShift^©. You will also learn about the enormous benefits that can be achieved by implementing the roles in SAFe^® for the entire corporate structure and dynamics.

Click here to go directly to

• Part two: How to fill leadership roles correctly and how to leverage unexpected potential
• Part three: Engage employees properly, increase commitment and drive innovation: here's how!
• Part four: So that companies become better and better: A look into the future

More interesting articles on this topic:

• How management models have developed: Quo vadis, employee leadership?
• Upward trend in agile management SAFe^®TCI is a SAFe partner and is ahead of the game
• Agile transformation with SAFe - a practical report
• Shared-LeaderShift© and what's behind it: a new sow in the village?

(Cover image: © ASDF | Adobe Stock)